3rd Theme, Lessons 15-16, Texts 70-73: Parinama Vada, Manifest and Unmanifest states of the Universe . PPT and recordings of this class are available at http://tinyurl.com/6-sandarbhas
Sakti Parinama Vada: Today’s class is about Sakti Parinama vada, this material world although temporary is real.
Lesson 15, Text 70: Sakti Parinama vada vs Vivarta vada: Jiva Goswami established that the universe is the result of transformation of Paramatma’s external energy, Maya and refuted the theory of illusion (vivarta vada).
Paramatma does not under go any change only his external energy goes through change.
Sat karya vada: The effect exists in its cause in a subtle or potential form. Sakti parinama vada accommodates Sat karya vada.
Paramatma remains free from the defect of modification while still being both the nimitta & constituent causes of the universe.
Material world exists as a reality (Sat) both during manifest and unmanifest states. Even during dissolution, the universe exists as sat or real simply being a dormant part of the SAT (Maha Vishnu, or Paramatma).
Summary of how Jiva Goswami Resolves the dilemma:
Anything to be real must exist in all three phases of time (past, present and future).
The words, sat and asat are defined in reference to existence => applied to one and the same object, signify a real but changing object, therefore the universe sometimes is called sat and sometimes called asat.
Prior to its creation existed as reality (sat) in it’s subtle form as the energy of Brahman, in their state of mutual oneness
It is equated with sat, which alone existed in the past, when the universe was not yet manifest. This is because the universe as effect was within its cause in a subtle form. The principle of Sat-Karya-Vada.
Mayavadis does not accept Paramatma concept they only believe in Brahman.
SB 10.87.36: “If it is argued that this universe is real because it has arisen from the Real, then is this not a logical fallacy? Sometimes, there is a deviation in this principle and sometimes the effect is false [even when the cause is real], but not so where the effect shares both characteristics. The false cognition of the world is sought for the sake of worldly transactions perpetuated through the blind succession of past conventions. Your words through their manifold powers of expression delude those whose intelligence is dulled by the formal structure of vedic sacrificial mantras.”
Lesson 16, Texts 71-73: Manifest & Unmanifest states of the Universe The universe is existent even during the period of dissolution:
- The universe in its subtle state remains un-manifested.
- Even though it appears to be in the same class as illusory silver because of being observable like it, it has a different type of existence.
- Because it is not devoid of transformation like the atma, its existence is not single and unchaniging
SB 10.87.37: “If this world did not exist before, then it would not have come into existence [at all]; therefore, the inference is falsely drawn from the [world’s] dissolution that it is mere appearance in You, who are “of one taste [eka-rase]”, and that it is present to awareness only in the interim period [between creation and dissolution]. Therefore, we compare it to the various types of phenominal objects derived from their elemental source materials. Only those who have not yet awakened discrimination [a-buddha] believe that [this] false play of the mind is the reality.”
SB 12.5.5: Sukadev Goswami to Maharaj Parikshit: “When a clay pot is broken, the space that was enclosed within the pot becomes simply open space, just as it was prior to delimiting. In the same way, when the body perishes, the Jiva again becomes Brahman.”
Queries by audience which were answered by His Grace Charu Chandra Prabhuji:
Slide 20 (SB 12.5.5) says the Jiva becomes Brahman i.e. it attains Brahman. Then, when some of the Jivas go to hell, how the soul also suffers in the absence of the material body? Someone is Brahman or Paramatma realized does not goto hell, when one is not completely Krishna Conscious and has material desires carries subtle body, through subtle body one suffers. Subtle body experiances as explained in 5th canto.
Can you elaborate pr that mayavadism was created by lord Siva on the order of the lord to help in dissolution of the universe. also pr can you explain why atyantika is one of the types of dissolution as opposed to one of the steps in liberation of a living entity Lord Shiva as Sankaracharya by the order of Supreme Lord. It is not to help in dissolution no not in that context. Dissolution is for that Jiva who goes back to spiritual world, when jiva becomes liberated soul. Liberation from material existence, material existence dissolution for that liberated jiva, not that material world dissolves actually. Brahman realization comes after dissolution of the gross and subtle bodies.
Is there any chances of falling again from Brahman attainment? As Mayavadis merge into Brahman they may come down not the ones that realize Brahman.
No one can fall down except with the plan of the Lord as happened for Jay and Vijay. In Jay Vijay case it is accidental fall down not real fall down
In some case we hear of devotees eg pandavas who went to spiritual world with same body, well in spiritualized body, ultimately they get spiritual body.